Our English Lab

[Jerda]

So, yesterday Dark Lady inadvertenlty deleted my former 3d in english I must thank her, however; since this gave me the idea to open a way cooler English Lab!

The idea is: we've always had a foreign section here in discutere.it, but it was never really attended. It's difficult to open a thread because if they are about English, they are boring indeed and even replicas of popular threads from other sections just didn't work.

But that was like 10 years ago, people are changed, people have changed. So, it's time to give that section a second chance, right? I have a hunch that someone is already interested. I hope actually enough people for Meltin'pot.

Anyway, this is also meant as a standalone thread, so no too much thinking about meltin'pot yet. We can simply discuss here regardless of the critical mass forming or not, and go on here on this 3d until you wish, basically. What do you think about it?

So, I designed the lab actually as a brainstorming -or a meltin'pot if you prefer- to figure out what we would do in such a currently hypothetical section. Conversation for instance, or games, that seem to be perfect in an english section, or help someone with a translation. The more ideas, the better and the richer might be a hypotetical english version. we could end up talking about fashion, school, new teaching systems, what you are doing now.

The forum could actually be used to improve our language skills, training with with each other, whatever! Provide tools and advice to learn while having fun. I've tons of them.

According to the classic rule, brainstorming doesn't need thoughtful answers, rather than everyone expressing them as they pop-up in own's mind. I personally would welcome any idea no matter how ponderate or not, but I'd like to invite others to express any thought, even crappy ideas that you already want to discard a second later, anything! Toss inside anything!!

Why here? If. I posted it on Meltin'Pot.... who would have seen it?

[Jerda]

sponsored by English with Lucy!

just kidding, but as a first piece of advice, if you want to spend some time watching her educational youtube channel, it's not at all a proper course, but it provides a lot of tips about this language.
She's nice and pretty (she might be knowing it, if you notice) and has a really refreshing attitude.

[follemente]

My English isn’t very good, but I try to write. If you like, you can correct me.

We could start talking about our habits that we miss when we go abroad. For instance, in the morning I’m used to drinking Espresso coffee , but in other countries I don’t find a good Espresso coffee. In Amsterdam I don’t like the coffee they have there, it’s horrible!

Other things that I like very much eating are pasta and risotto “al dente”. In the world I didn’t find them, so I think it’s better to eat local specialties when we are abroad.

Moreover I’m used to choosing from 20 different kinds of bread, but in many countries there are only two tipes of bread.

[Jerda]

Absolutely! The only thing I really missed of Italy is food at first. After a month or so being here, I felt like I'd never have eaten real food ever again!

In the Netherlands for example, they grow any vegetable with advanced indoor growing techniques. They taste like cardboard, even organic food...

Nothing to say about their milk, butter, eggs or cheese. Outstanding. But as we move to fruits and vegetable, there's really nothing worthwhile to remember. I actually had to invent all other routines when I buy, prepare and preserve cooked food for the next meal.
Cooffee is forbidden fo me now, but it's definitely something espresso enthusiasts are going to miss, when moving here. Nothing to do with old-fashioned north-european black coffee, they do prepare espresso, but it cannot replace our coffee at all
If you are interested we might open 3d's on several topic, as a training. We could correct each other and figure with time new ways to proceed further

[Jerda]

Gift for the first passers-by:

This educational poem has been written by a brilliant Dutch amateur with a robust english knowledge, to prove the point that english is an opaque language, which means, there is no way to be certain of the pronunciation when meeting a new word for the first time. On the contrary, in Italian even reading a word for the first time, you can only have doubts where the accent falls, which is 99% intuitive by the way. Because we read words as they are written, basically.

It's quite challenging for english native speakers, too, so it has to be taken as a curiosity. If you want to try, read it aloud. then, when you're done, you can compare your reading with the solution, down below in the video. It's not difficult or something to follow, you just have see how you would read it.

THE CHAOS
Gerard Nolst Trenité

Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,

I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.

Tear in eye your dress you'll tear,
So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer,

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!

Just compare heart, beard and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,

Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written).

Made has not the sound of bade,
Say said, pay-paid, laid, but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,

But be careful how you speak,
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak.

Previous, precious, fuchsia, via,
Pipe, snipe, recipe and choir,

Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,

Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles.
Exiles, similes, reviles.

Wholly, holly, signal, signing.
Thames, examining, combining

Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war, and far.

From "desire": desirable--admirable from "admire."
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier.

Chatham, brougham, renown, but known.
Knowledge, done, but gone and tone,

One, anemone. Balmoral.
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel,

Gertrude, German, wind, and mind.
Scene, Melpomene, mankind,

Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, reading, heathen, heather.

This phonetic labyrinth
Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet;

Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.

Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which is said to rime with "darky."

Viscous, Viscount, load, and broad.
Toward, to forward, to reward.

And your pronunciation's O.K.,
When you say correctly: croquet.

Rounded, wounded, grieve, and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive, and live,

Liberty, library, heave, and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven,

We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.

Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover,

Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police, and lice.

Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label,

Petal, penal, and canal,
Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal.

Suit, suite, ruin, circuit, conduit,
Rime with "shirk it" and "beyond it."

But it is not hard to tell,
Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.

Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,

Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, and chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor,

Ivy, privy, famous, clamour
And enamour rime with hammer.

Pussy, hussy, and possess,
Desert, but dessert, address.

Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants.
Hoist, in lieu of flags, left pennants.

River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.

Stranger does not rime with anger.
Neither does devour with clangour.

Soul, but foul and gaunt but aunt.
Font, front, won't, want, grand, and grant.

Shoes, goes, does. Now first say: finger.
And then: singer, ginger, linger,

Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, age.

Query does not rime with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.

Dost, lost, post; and doth, cloth, loth;
Job, Job; blossom, bosom, oath.

Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual.

Seat, sweat; chaste, caste.; Leigh, eight, height;
Put, nut; granite, and unite.

Reefer does not rime with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.

Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
Hint, pint, Senate, but sedate.

Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific,

Tour, but our and succour, four,
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.

Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria,

Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion.

Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay.

Say aver, but ever, fever.
Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.

Never guess--it is not safe:
We say calves, valves, half, but Ralph.

Heron, granary, canary,
Crevice and device, and eyrie,

Face but preface, but efface,
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.

Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust, and scour, but scourging,

Ear but earn, and wear and bear
Do not rime with here, but ere.

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,

Monkey, donkey, clerk, and jerk,
Asp, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation--think of psyche--!
Is a paling, stout and spikey,

Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing "groats" and saying "grits"?

It's a dark abyss or tunnel,
Strewn with stones, like rowlock, gunwale,

Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict, and indict!

Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?

Finally: which rimes with "enough"
Though, through, plough, cough, hough, or tough?

Hiccough has the sound of "cup."
My advice is to give it up!

[Jerda]

When you want to check your pronunciation... it's a messy language, isn't it?



Have a nice day guys!

[Jerda]

About pronunciation and learning resources, I highly recommend https://www.forvo.com



It's a community-based website on pronunciation; anybody can sign-up and record their own pronunciation, both of words that already have been pronounced, or of a word that has no translations. When you add yours, other mother tongue users can give you a thumb-up or down, as a result your pronunciation will be sorted first. It is also valuable to check different pronunciations from different places, eg. American or British pronunciation of the same word. The only rule is that you can only add or rate words that are official in the country where you're typing from.
It's really cool, one of my most-used online tools ever.

[bumble-bee]

What happened to the original thread?

We were talking about girls in the summer time!!

[follemente]

Thank you for the suggestions, Jerda, and for a very nice poem! It is really difficult to pronounce...

[follemente]

What happened to the original thread?

We were talking about girls in the summer time!!

The thread was cancelled for mistake.

[Jerda]

Thank you for the suggestions, Jerda, and for a very nice poem! It is really difficult to pronounce...

Yes, absolutely, see how it ends! It's more of a curiosity rather than something to solve. Fascinating. isn't it?

[Jerda]

What happened to the original thread?

We were talking about girls in the summer time!!

It got lost in transl... deletion
We can still speak about girls in the summertime anyway!

[follemente]

Yes, absolutely, see how it ends! It's more of a curiosity rather than something to solve. Fascinating. isn't it?

Yes, it is!

[bumble-bee]

Oh. It has been censored?

I would like to speak about how I've learned english. I started learn english at the middle school. I still remember the teacher's name, Mrs Bele.
She was pretty, gentle, but also strict. My grades weren't exciting... often his ratings was "poor". I wasn't very attracted to the matter.
When I started the high school, I studied English, French and German languages. At the beginning I was attracted by German language. I
considered it more interessing than English and french ones. I remember, I hate french, although the pronunciation was much more musical,
compared to the others. However for three years, I studied these languages. After the third year, german language was abandoned.
It was natural for me to choose English as my preferred language, both because it was much easier and because French had never impressed me.

In order to improve my knowledge of english, I attended a private teacher. I will never forget his name, Giuseppe. I remember that, to motivate myself
even more, we often took a short break, listened to some songs of the pink floyd and translating the lyrics. So... in addition to learning English, I also
began to love the Pink Floyd band. During the last year of high school, I attended the private teacher, for a whole year, making me also prepare for the
final exam, which was a success.

After school I started my career as hotel receptionist in some hotels, but in 1991, I changed my job. I started to work as a shipping agent, giving assistance
to trade vessels which called at Augusta's harbour. This job, which I'm still doing, gave me the possibility to improve further my knowkedge of english.

Of course I don't say I know it perfectly, however... a little more than... a little bit!!!

[Jerda]

Awesome! I also hated French at the high school, I only studied English and German, but relied on my "ear" for french
I never really liked latine languages. I didn't even bother to learn Spanish, just to mark four... nothing!